Q41 Mr Curry: May I just continue on the subject of car parking charges because, quite clearly, the increases have been hugely abusive and effective. As I said, National Express 20%, and you said "We expect them to charge what the market will bear", is that right?
Dr Mitchell: We expect them to charge an amount which reflects the utility of the car park and other factors that they take into account. I would have to emphasise that we do not guide them and nor do we set any charges for car parks.
Q42 Mr Curry: I know that, but would you explain what the difference between what you have just said and the expression "what the market will bear" is?
Dr Mitchell: What the market will bear is normally taken to mean to price to the limit that people are prepared to pay.
Q43 Mr Curry: Let me put it this way, that when people using the services discover that the increase in car parking charges may come every six months or so they have reason to complain.
Dr Mitchell: Yes, I would say so.
Q44 Mr Curry: That has happened so it would be interesting if you would commission some research to take in, let us say, the 50 major commuting stations in an arc around London and just see what has happened to car parking charges over the last three years. I think you would be surprised and I hope that in future franchising there may be some guidance to the companies about their habit of trying to fleece the passenger for every last penny. I will give you an example of my own station, National Express; at the beginning of December we had a notice which said from now on if you want to park your car you must either phone or text or go onto the website but you cannot buy a parking ticket at the kiosk. The extremely helpful staff at the station said "Don't blame us, it does not cause us any extra effort at all". I finally took it up with the company and I said "Why are you so determined to make yourself an enemy of your customers by adding to the inconvenience of your customers by removing the simple facility to buy a car park ticket when you buy your ticket?" In the end they backed down and they said "We never intended this." The notice was absolutely clear; what sort of psychology in the company occasions that sort of behaviour?
Dr Mitchell: I would not like to hazard a guess but I repeat it is a matter for the company; obviously you took it up with the company and they resolved the matter.
Q45 Mr Curry: Does it not worry you? For a significant number of passengers their relationship with the company which runs their trains is one of antagonism. I wake up in the morning thinking what problems am I going to have with this damn railway today. When I go to Tesco I think that on the whole they are on my side; most other businesses by and large are on my side, but the railway companies I do not, I think they are my enemies.
Dr Mitchell: I would be happy to raise your concerns with the chief executive of the company.
Q46 Mr Curry: Can I just look at the pricing. The Government last year capped council taxes at 5% in order to get them below 5%; this year it is saying it is going to cap council taxes at below 5% in order to reflect the economic circumstances and the punishment in people's pockets. Do you think it is logical to cap council taxes at that sort of level but to allow rail fares to increase by a minimum of 5% and in some cases 9% plus, and on many routes which are not regulated somewhere around 7% plus. Does that make any sense?
Dr Mitchell: We regulate 60% of the fares and that is set at RPI plus one.
Q47 Mr Curry: I know the RPI in the month of September was exceptionally high.
Dr Mitchell: Yes, it was, but I assume it is going to be lower this year. Having said that though it is part of Government policy to rebalance the financing of railways between the taxpayer and the fare payer and the secretary of state has set that out no more recently than in the White Paper last year.
Q48 Mr Curry: What it looks like, I am sorry to say, is a cosy little arrangement between the companies and the Government to fleece the travelling public. That is what it looks like in absolutely clear terms.
Dr Mitchell: In about 1990 the taxpayer funded about 35% of rail fares; more recently they are funding 50% of rail fares and that is why the Government has decided to rebalance the amount that the taxpayer pays and the amount that the user pays. That is Government policy.
Q49 Mr Curry: If you did a comparison between, let us say, certain average or standard journeys in Britain with standard journeys in the leading continental countries, what conclusion would you arrive at in terms of the fares and the quality of the service?
Dr Mitchell: It would be quite a difficult comparison because there are some extremely cheap fares in the UK. It is possible to travel, for example, at certain times of day to places like York for £6 or £7. The most expensive fares, in other words the first class fares, the any time fares, constitute something like 20% of the fares. I do not recall the exact figure but fairly recently the managing director of West Coast Trains, the Virgin franchise who operate West Coast, said that the vast majority of his passengers paid quite a low fare and that the average fare was less than £35. I may have got that number slightly wrong, but it is of that order.
Mr Curry: I am sorry; I have been held up at a red light.
Q50 Dr Pugh: In my constituency, Southport, two franchises terminate, the Northern Rail franchise does and the Merseyrail franchise does, so the trains park side by side. There is an interesting comparison there because they are both running on Network Rail track, they are both Serco Ned franchises, they both get their carriages from Angel Trains and so on, but with one service there is broad satisfaction- good indicators, good reliability, clean carriages and so on. That is the Merseyrail section. On the Northern franchise I get nothing but criticism of all kinds, both about the quality of the rolling stock, the cleanliness, reliability, any factor you care to mention. The two differential factors there are obviously satisfaction, but the other differential factor is obviously the fact that in one case the Department of Transport is not particularly involved in the franchising arrangements, that is given to MPTE, and in the other case you are.
Dr Mitchell: Yes.