Q151 Mr Mitchell: How many?
Sir John Chisholm: I cannot give you the exact number.
Q152 Mr Mitchell: Can you remember how many people were excluded from the 245?
Sir John Chisholm: How many people were excluded from the 245?
Q153 Mr Mitchell: Yes, the 245 people who got the lower stratum of rewards.
Sir John Chisholm: Those were the people who were in the broader management team.
Q154 Mr Mitchell: So everybody in that broader management team got it?
Sir John Chisholm: Everybody who-
Q155 Mr Mitchell: Everybody you approved of or what?
Sir John Chisholm: No, everyone in the broader management team-
Q156 Mr Mitchell: Got it?
Sir John Chisholm:- were offered it. Not everybody in that team took it up.
Q157 Mr Mitchell: Mr Jeffrey, Carlyle are private equity people. We are taught not to love private equity in the Labour Party. I do not know what your position on private equity is. Certainly they do not publish accounts so we do not exactly know what is going on. Are there any doubts about Carlyle, as an American firm which does not publish accounts, being involved in this way?
Mr Jeffrey: I do not have a personal view on private equity one way or the other, Mr Mitchell. All I can say is that at the time it was perfectly consistent with the Government's policy for us to involve a private equity firm of that sort as a strategic partner in order to grow the QinetiQ business.
Q158 Mr Mitchell: But the Government felt at the time that it did not want defence producers to take this on and yet Carlyle has other defence interests.
Mr Jeffrey: It may do but it is-
Q159 Mr Mitchell: Do you know what it has?
Mr Jeffrey: Its interest in this particular privatisation was quite specific to QinetiQ and its intention was clearly always to exit when it had achieved the growth in value. The reason that the decision was taken not to favour other defence contractors was that it was thought that there was a risk of conflict and that if it turned out to be in their interests because there were synergies between their business and the QinetiQ business-
Q160 Mr Mitchell: Perhaps you can tell us what defence interests it had at the time of investment. Are you worried that this firm-private equity, no published accounts, other interests-is getting access to commercially sensitive information about British defence interests?
Mr Jeffrey: There is no reason to suppose that the company behaved other than properly during the period-and in fact, they have now divested themselves of their remaining stake-when they were involved in the company. I do not know whether Sir John wants to add to that.