Q221 Chairman: The chief executive.
Mr Jeffrey: The chief executive and-
Q222 Chairman: And he was seeing ministers, was he, advising them?
Mr Jeffrey: I was not there at the time but I imagine Sir John was. I was making a point about the way in which the department managed the fact that-
Q223 Chairman: In all fairness, Sir John, I have to give you a chance to reply to this.
Sir John Chisholm: From the time the corporate plan 1997, called the CP98, was published, the Ministry of Defence appointed a separate official to take the lead on policy, so from that time onwards, quite appropriately, the lead was taken by someone else other than me.
Q224 Chairman: The lead, but did you give any advice to ministers after 1998 on this?
Sir John Chisholm: I met with ministers remarkably seldom.
Q225 Chairman: I did not ask you that. Did you give any advice to ministers after 1998 on this project?
Sir John Chisholm: I do not remember, I have to say, discussing this with Lord Gilbert. We had a council.
Q226 Chairman: I did not ask you that. Did you give any advice to ministers after 1998 on this project?
Sir John Chisholm: I presented our Corporate Plan. That I do remember doing.
Q227 Chairman: You presented your-
Sir John Chisholm: Corporate Plan.
Q228 Chairman: Did you give any advice on the implications of the sale or the relationship with Carlyle or anything else? Were there any conversations after 1998?
Sir John Chisholm: Carlyle was absolutely not in it at that stage.
Q229 Chairman: All right. You are deliberately trying to avoid answering the question. Did you have any discussions with ministers appertaining to this privatisation that we are discussing this afternoon after 1998 of any nature?
Sir John Chisholm: I supported from time to time the Ministry of Defence team.
Q230 Chairman: So you did advise ministers?
Sir John Chisholm: I supported the Ministry of Defence team.