Q31 Mr Bacon: I'm sorry. Can you be clear? When you say, "which was to 2008", do you mean "until 2008"?
Ginny Clarke: Sorry. Yes. My apologies. Until 2008. Parsons Brinckerhoff was employed as an adviser. It was then taken over by one of the contractors that worked for the private finance initiative consortium, the joint venture, and we requested-it was at our instigation-that it was removed from our contract. It was a partner in a JV that was employed by us. It was removed from that, because we said that there was a potential conflict of interest. So, from that point onwards it was not involved with the M25 PFI.
Q32 Chair: From the point that he entered their employment?
Ginny Clarke: No, no, no. He joined the company a year and a half later, I think.
Q33 Stephen Barclay: Sorry. Can I just clarify something? Can you tell us what date he was appointed SRO on the project and what date he finished as SRO and joined the company, between those two dates? It was a number really that I was looking for, whether it is zero or more-what was paid by the DFT to that firm?
Ginny Clarke: I was just going to say that that is listed in the additional information that was provided after the last hearing.
Stephen Barclay: That is what I am trying to get to.
Q34 Mr Bacon: What is the answer to the question? When was he appointed SRO?
Graham Dalton: I believe that it was at the time that the procurement started.
Q35 Mr Bacon: What date? Give us a date.
Graham Dalton: It would have been 2005, when the procurement started.
Q36 Mr Bacon: He was appointed SRO in 2005. Which month? Do you know which month?
Graham Dalton: No, I don't.
Q37 Mr Bacon: It's extraordinary, because we understand SROs to be the person who is in ultimate charge of the project. That's why the word "responsible" is in the title-"senior responsible officer". Yet we have the problem again and again. Departments cannot tell us-the MOD has the same problem-exactly who was the senior responsible officer, and when. Is there anyone in the Room, behind you, who knows when that individual was appointed senior responsible officer in 2005-which month?
Ginny Clarke: We can find it out, clearly.
Chair: Do you know-
Q38 Mr Bacon: When did he stop being senior responsible officer?
Ginny Clarke: I think it was March 2009-sorry, June 2009-when he left the employment.
Q39 Mr Bacon: So from some point in 2005 until June 2009, he was the senior responsible officer of the project.
Ginny Clarke: Yes.
Q40 Mr Bacon: And during the period 2005-06 Parsons Brinckerhoff was paid £1,900,000; in 2006-07 it was paid £2,700,000; in 2007-08 it was paid just £27,000; and after that it was not paid anything. Is that right?
Ginny Clarke: In 2008-09 it was taken over by Balfour Beatty, and was part of the joint venture that was effectively contracting for the service. That's when we said, "Actually, you can't be part of the JV that is supporting us because of the potential conflict of interest."