Q31 Mr Touhig: How many people from KHHD are working on this project? You have two.
Mr Bradbrook: Obviously, it depends on the point in the procurement cycle, but at the peak when we had lawyers and accountants involved it was probably of the order of 15.
Q32 Mr Touhig: They had 15 to your two?
Mr Bradbrook: As I said before, their cost would be paid for in a stroke by not increasing the price beyond preferred bidder stage and not having any claims whatsoever in the first two years.
Q33 Mr Touhig: But the point I am trying to establish is: are you satisfied that your two people against their 15 are keeping on top of this work? Paragraph 3.7 of the Report refers to "the considerable volume of material prepared by KHHD and the diverse geographical spread of the team of its advisers". That is clearly having an impact on the ability of your two men to do their job.
Mr Robertson: I think these people did a good job.
Q34 Mr Touhig: Not if you look at what is said here.
Mr Robertson: Looking back at it now, if we were doing it again we would certainly put in more resources up front.
Q35 Mr Touhig: As an aficionado of Yes, Minister and a former minister myself I know that the best trick in the world is just to sink people under paperwork. Looking at this Report, it seems to me that that is what KHHD is doing to your two people; they are sinking under paperwork and are not really able to manage this project in the way it ought to be.
Mr Robertson: I think that is an interpretation of the Report. I accept that the vulnerability was there, but in our internal audit checks we have not seen any evidence that this team, albeit with a small core and with the support of the rest of the agency, did other than what I consider to be a very good job.
Q36 Mr Touhig: It just seems to me that the more we go through the Report the more it highlights the failures of your agency. Were you the agency that also invented the hotline for cones back in the days of John Major?
Mr Robertson: I believe that was a political inspiration, not an agency one.
Q37 Chairman: As to KHHD, why was there not some incentive scheme imposed on it to make it manage within budgets?
Mr Bradbrook: Initially, in the feasibility study we did it for a fixed price. Because we were not committed to follow the recommendations of the feasibility study it was inappropriate to set fixed prices in their tender for the subsequent phases, but once we had started the procurement process to control prices we wrote a project initiation document and various scoping documents for each of the strands of work. From those we produced task allocation forms in which each of the consultant's time was allocated.
Q38 Chairman: That is all very interesting but you have not answered my question which is dealt with in paragraph 3.8: "In practice, there were no incentives, such as task performance bonuses/ deductions, in KHHD's contract. . ." I want to know why there was not an incentive scheme.
Mr Robertson: There were not incentive schemes there because we were looking to make the decisions and not have them adjusted by an adviser who was acting up front and would not be there at the end of the day.
Chairman: That is a fair point.
Q39 Mr Curry: Mr Robertson, I was thinking of you last Friday evening as I was travelling down the A1. I go up and down that road most weekends and I know it pretty intimately. I was thinking that it made life somewhat easier but you seemed to be removing all the roundabouts from the A1, no doubt at some gigantic cost, even though over 20 years I have never been held up at any of them, but it makes for a smoother ride. I then saw one of your overhead signs which said there were severe delays after-I think it was-the A428. After another mile I saw another sign which said the same thing. Two miles further on there were signs which repeated the message. I did not have the faintest idea where the A428 is, so your information was entirely useless to me. Had it said that there were severe delays after the Peterborough or Welwyn Garden City turnoff, or whatever it happened to be, that would have been helpful. Had it then gone on to say what I should do about it, it would have been seriously useful. The fact of the matter is that I know I use the A14 to access the A1 and I know where I get off the A1, but I do not have the faintest idea of the names, numbers, colours or sex of any of the roads between those two points. Why do you not give me some information that is useful to me as a motorist?
Mr Robertson: First, thank you for pointing out the developments we are undertaking on the roundabouts on the A1. The roundabouts and the junctions of the A1 with which you will also be familiar have a poor safety record and we are taking them out for safety reasons rather than for reasons of congestion.
Q40 Mr Curry: There is certainly an economic reason as well because I can now cruise at a sensible speed instead of changing gear, stopping, starting and cursing at lorry drivers.
Mr Robertson: The fascinating thing about road transport and motorcar transport, which I assume you use, is that unlike rail, ships and airlines you make all the decisions about when you travel, what route you take, whether you take somebody with you and possibly at what speed you will travel. Therefore, I fully accept that in order to enable the networks to work well I have to provide you with good information. We now believe that we have most of the tolls to give you good information. The best information is that which you can get as early as possible. Therefore, if you have not already done it I would encourage you to check either on the radio, or website if it is available to you, before you set out on those long journeys whether there are delays because the closer you get to an incident the less flexibility there is for you to do something about it.