Q51 Chair: Have they ever delivered anything in a quarter less time? It seems to me that they have told you that they can do it, but answer this question: have they ever delivered anything early?
Michael Hurn: I do not have those facts available today.
Q52 Chair: You would know, wouldn't you? That would be my first question when they suddenly said, "It won't take us three years and three months to deliver a carriage"-is that for a carriage?-"but two years and seven months to deliver each carriage."
Michael Hurn: One point of clarification, if I may. They are saying that it will take 36 months for around the first 100 carriages. Before, that was about 39 or 40 months. It is just about making sure that we have an apples-with-apples comparison. It is true that the first train is within that December 2015 period, which is the first time that you referred to. But the first 100 carriages, which equates to the original 39, in terms of an apples-for-apples comparison, has gone from 39 to 36 months, so it is three years.
Q53 Chair: And have they ever delivered early on anything?
Michael Hurn: I am very confident that Siemens can deliver this train.
Q54 Chair: Why?
Michael Hurn: Because they have a huge pedigree, along with all the other main train manufacturers-it is not just Siemens-for delivering high-quality products to the time specified. Siemens are entirely capable of doing that.
Q55 Chair: Give me an example-where?
Michael Hurn: For South West Trains, for example.
Q56 Chair: Was that delivered early, on time, or late?
Michael Hurn: I don't have the information to hand.
Q57 Chair: Well, you must know.
Michael Hurn: Yes.
Q58 Chair: Was it early, late, on time, on budget?
Michael Hurn: They delivered-
Q59 Chair: You said that they have a pedigree and have done really well. All I am really asking you for is an example. You say to me, "South West Trains", but I haven't a clue; I am not a train expert. For South West Trains, were there carriages as well? Do you know, Mr Higgins? Somebody must know.
David Higgins: Yes. That was Desiros. This is the third series-the 700s. They have had a long history in manufacturing trains. They have also done London Midland-they are all Desiros-so we should have a lot of confidence that they know what they are doing.
Q60 Chair: What is the penalty if they do not? I understand that they do not get paid until they deliver-I should bloody well hope not-but there is a difference. What is the penalty?
Michael Hurn: I can't tell you the financial elements because it is obviously sensitive at the moment, but in terms of cost headings there are liquidated damages for late delivery. Also, they will not be paid in terms of a rental payment-the lease rental payment that I mentioned earlier.